Filmmaking is not just a career path but also a journey that is often shaped by curiosity, passion and the desire to tell stories that resonates with people on a deeper level. This also applies to documentary films as well.

For Bret Miller and Rory McHarg, co-directors of the documentary film “A Two Hearted Tale”, this journey has been one of collaboration and exploration. This film delves into the story behind Bell’s Two-Hearted Ale, a craft beer that has become a cultural icon. This is not just for its taste but for its unique label design. With their experiences in narrative filmmaking and branded content, Bret and Rory have made a documentary film that explores the intersection of art, history and personal connections that have shaved the brand into something loved and adored by many.

They shared more in this exclusive interview.

1. Hello Bret and Rory, can you share with us a bit about yourselves and your journey as Filmmakers?

Bret: I’m Bret, I’m a filmmaker in Atlanta. I work mostly in narrative fiction, though I love making documentary films on subjects I’m passionate about. I directed my first feature film right after undergrad, a thriller that kickstarted my career. I directed commercials, shorts, and wrote scripts that became fun movies. I was fortunate enough to direct my second feature film, Chasing the Star, for CDI before joining up with DYNMC Films. A Two Hearted Tale was the opportunity to work with Davis Nixon again, along with Rory McHarg and many other friends in the industry.

Rory: Hi, I’m Rory, the co-director and producer of A Two Hearted Tale. I also did the title design and animations in the film in conjunction with the artist. So I come from an ad & branded content agency background, and formally with VICE in NY, this is one of my first films made without the financial backing of a brand. Which allowed Bret, Nikki (our Editor) and I to break some of the usual format rules of doc-making by retaining all the editorial control.

 

2. What inspired you to create a documentary about Bell’s Two Hearted Ale and its iconic label? Was it the beer or was it the label?

Bret: Rory came to me, but I had long been interested in making a documentary about craft beer. I’d had a ton of starts and stops, near misses. The slight shift to the art of the label was an easy decision because I love the artist’s process.

Rory: Honestly, I had moved to Michigan from New York and was looking for an IPA to drink locally. Someone told me I had to try Bell’s Two Hearted Ale, they described it as the one with the fish on it. I asked myself “why the hell did they put a trout on the label?” I wasn’t the only one asking this question, I read Dave Chapelle had famously asked the same question during a comedy set in Kalamazoo. So Bret and I set out to find out. We really had no interest in telling a story about the taste or the making of the beer, that’s really best told by the Brewery. And once we met Ladislav we knew we had character and probably a pretty eccentric story, so I guess it was beer that lead to the label.

 

3. Co-directing always seems like looking at things from two different perspectives and trying to merge them into one single voice. Can you share with us what it was like collaborating and making this film?

Bret: I think more people ought to try co-directing, because Rory and I come from completely opposite ends of the narrative spectrum. He’s a generally curious person, so he wanted to know about decisions made within the art vs design process. I love characters, and I love to hear people reflect on decisions they made and how they altered events down the line. We always had a visual style we were going for, so those talks were easy. Building trust was key, but it really came down to finding a single goal and using our varying experiences to make the best decisions we could.

Rory: Of course I agree with what Bret said. (director chuckles). Because it was our first project together beyond some commercial work the roles didn’t have to be so defined on set. Bret’s strong background in narrative meant we spent a lot of time developing the story arc with pivots in mind – as with all docs – we had a plan for the story written out, act by act sort of, but as the story evolved we changed its focus. So with my doc and design background, we were able to converse back and forth and decide how the story should be told by what was accessible for us to film. This led to the chapters and unconventional format.

 

4. What did the preproduction stages of this film involve?

Bret: Pre-pro was tougher than most because we agreed to work on the film together a week before the Covid-19 Pandemic entered our lives. So, it meant a lot of Zoom calls, a lot of decks, and varying storylines. The only thing we could really do was gather a team, shoot some early interviews, and chase what we thought the story was. Some of it stuck, others didn’t. But it was an interesting experience to say the least.

Rory: Probably the biggest unsaid part of the film was the exclusion of Larry Bell (the founder of Bell’s Brewery), during pre-pro and early filming we had always planned to have his voice in the film. When it became apparent ,even after making a rough cut, he wasn’t going to lend his voice, our film changed. But the space COVID allowed us meant we could go back to filming with new story points in mind.

 

5. The film has a nostalgic look and feel. What influenced this choice and how did that affect the narrative and visual style?

Bret: I might not consider myself an artist in the traditional sense, but the film itself is about art. So, it was important for the visuals to feel soft and warm. Filmic, even though very little of the movie was shot on film. That nostalgic look brings the audience back to the early days of Ladislav’s art, the early days of Bell’s Beer. We wanted to transport our audiences there best we could. 

Rory: Yeah, someone asked us at the screening Q&A what we thought of AI’s role in the future of filmmaking. Which is far cry from our visual style in this film. But it made me think about what we were trying to capture in our visual choices (with the tools we had). The tools Ladislav used to make (mass) reproductions of his prints at one point in time were probably revolutionary, and the world would have feared that tool. Just like AI, but really it’s just another tool that helps us tell our stories in a unique way. So we wanted to capture that pocket of time when Lad was making label art and the technology he and the brewery had to make those labels. Clearly I like this question, but you can never underestimate the power of nostalgia – we had former Bell’s employees come up to us after a screening with tears in their eyes, because it took them back to a very special time in Kalamazoo’s beer community.  This alone told me that we made the right visual choices especially with our color palette that reflected the beer label itself.

 

6. The film has several talking head subjects, but Ladislav Hanka appears to be the central figure. What drew you to him and influenced that choice of making him the lead of this documentary film?

Bret: Ladislav became the main focus for two reasons; we knew we wanted to lean heavily onto the Two Hearted Ale, which he designed. Secondly, Ladislav is a very interesting person. Documentaries are about characters more than anything else, and we knew that audiences would be just as interested in learning more about Ladislav as they would in Bell’s Brewery or the original artwork. That was a quick and easy decision.

Rory: Right on the surface, it’s just Trout on a beer label, but underneath it’s a 40 year history of artistic influences that spans Kalamazoo to the Upper Peninsula of Michigan, a mystic river, a supreme court justice, and the No.1 IPA in America. All this led back to Lad & Larrys love of fishing, the UP and the writer Robert Traver. Lad was one who could tell this story so eloquently.

 

7. What were some of the most significant challenges you faced during the production of “A Two Hearted Tale” and how did you overcome them?

Bret: Covid was big, obviously. I moved across the country in the middle of the process, which had its own set of challenges outside of production. Still, the biggest challenge is always time. Documentary especially, because time is normally an asset. But, it’s easy to fall into the trap of overusing time. Pushing release dates, chasing down more interviews. Anything you can do to prolong the production of the film. But part of this whole thing is letting your art out into the world, being vulnerable enough for people to see it. It wasn’t always clear, but we soon came to a point where there were no more interviews to shoot, or edits to make. We had to finish the project.

Rory: yeah to Bret’s point COVID and I’d say the exclusion of Larry Bell in the story. Time was the great overcomer. We had to wade it out. Luckily it was a personal project so no one was breathing down our necks to finish it, except our own patience.

 

8. Are there any particular moments in the production of this film that stood out for you?

 Bret: I loved every part of the production, hard to think of one in particular. I really loved getting to sit down at the end of a long day to Czeck coffee brewed by Jana. Enjoying their company, experiencing them in their element. That was definitely a highlight, for sure.

Rory: I think of the little things, having to put the DP in a full Beekeeper suit to film Ladislav with the Bee Hives. That image makes me laugh. Then at one point Bret was on Facetime in Atlanta while we conducted an interview so we had the phone nestled in a tree so he could see what was going on. It’s funny that those are things that stood out. The whole film was a joy to make, good people, great subjects, a community passionate about beer and art!

 

9. Another part of this film that makes this film what it is was the music. What went it to the sound scoring?

Bret: Glad you asked, I’m obsessed with the score. Zak Engel composed and performed the music, he did an incredible job. It was our first time working together, though he had known Rory. We all really wanted earthy tones, and calming music. I really pushed to have a nostalgic feel, showing that even the down years were still being remembered as moments in time that led to something grand. The piano melody with the clarinet layering just gets me every time I hear it.

Rory: Yeah Zak Engel. Full stop. A multi instrumentalist composer who I came across in a Sandra Winther short called ‘Lowland Kids’.  We’d worked on some other shorts together and Zak’s range was what had always impressed me, he could go from Taylor Swift vibes to Sigur Ros seamlessly. But the task was to nail a theme for the film. I wanted Americana, but since I’m from New Zealand that meant a lot of different things to the rest of the team. Nikki Finn, our editor was instrumental here, she cut the roughs to Nick Drake’s music who became the influence to the sound that Zak made his own.

 

10. From your own perspectives, do you think Bell’s Brewery and its unique branding have influenced the craft beer industry?

Bret: I’m a consumer, not an expert. But it’s impossible not to see the influence. Down in Georgia, there are so many labels that seem to imitate those early Bell’s designs. In every liquor store, this massive collection always has Bell’s beer right the center of it all.

Rory: Without a doubt. Remember Larry Bell was making his beers in the early 80’s and he was just putting whatever label art he could muster up with friends on this beer. Those happened to be artists. I’m not saying he’s the first, but what followed in the early 2000’s was that every brewery started commissioning artists to make their labels and brands unique in the market – hence Ralph Steadman on Flying Dog. Case and point.  Then the major’s tried to replicate that uniqueness, even Bud Light at one point made a series of artist labels for the EDM scene, which was terrible.

11. Can you tell us a bit about what the selection into the Indy Film Festival means for this film?

Bret: I have a special place in my heart for the city of Indianapolis, so it was awesome to screen there! They’ve had amazing programs over the years, and we were so grateful to be a part of it. I’m looking forward to coming back with another film in the future!

Rory: Man, if any selectors pick a niche, almost obscure film like this to screen we are grateful. Bret has a great understanding of the circuit, I’m new to this, so as we find our audiences it was really important to have inclusion in the “midwest” where the beer is just synonymous.  We recently screened at Doc Edge in New Zealand which we were really proud of, to get in an Oscar Qualifying festival and in a country that has no idea about Bell’s Brewery means the story was strong.

 

12. Lastly, what message or sentiment would you like to leave with viewers after they watch “A Two Hearted Tale”?

Bret: I’d like audiences to realize that people and, in some cases, companies are complicated and layered. The artists have inspirations and styles, some of which come from places they never expected. As this film concludes, we were lucky to capture Ladislav’s realization that the label was made as an ode to his father, who got him Trout Madness all those years ago. That’s something you can’t plan for, it has to come organically. I hope that when people look at art, true art, they’ll remember that the influences come from years of work and years of relationships, both good and bad. Sometimes the artist doesn’t even realize why they’re drawn to an image, it’s buried deep within their psyche. But it’s there, for all of us. It takes a lot of work to pinpoint it.

Rory: Bret said this so well, and most people think the film is about the well known beer, which in part it is, but really I think the film explores lessons of fatherhood and friendships, that sometimes abruptly end over business decisions.

The film’s name centers on a particular part of Michigan’s Upper Peninsula and a now infamous beer named after a river up there. How that earned a cult following, we wanted to find out. The battle between angler and trout is most intriguing and widely written about so it appears, even Hemmingway agreed.  Maybe that lasting sentiment is buried in his stories of “Big Two-Hearted River”

 

It is clear that the film “A Two Hearted Tale” is more than just a documentary about a beer label. It reflects the connection between art, commerce and personal history. It invites viewers to look beyond the familiar and uncover the layers of inspiration, and dedication.

The film is a testament to the power of storytelling, where the seemingly mundane subject like a beer label becomes a window to complex human experiences.

Through this conversation, Bret Miller and Rory McHarg leave us with a profound understanding that the stories behind the art we consume are as rich and varied as the lives of those who create it.

In Conversation With Reina K., brings to you the kind of scoop that gives you a real insight into the mind, drive and craft of filmmakers from across the world.